Weight - A question for plus size JETs

[ladama]

So basically to answer this question:

Do you find you are ridiculed in Japan for your weight more than your home country?

I'd say as long as you're not placed anywhere near word, you'll be fine

You may get more comments from kids and such, but I think only the sveltest of us escape getting any sort of comments. I've known several ALTs who would have been considered pretty normal weight (if not slim) in their home countries get comments about their weight from kids, coworkers, or Japanese friends.

Clothes are for the Japanese frame, so any woman who has good sized hips or bust, or even is just tall is going to have trouble finding clothes. While I could stand to lose some weight, I never really felt too bad about my size in Japan because I knew not matter how much weight I lost, I wasn't ever going to be "Japan-thin".

Also, there's a long and sad story behind my attitude about this sort of thing, so try not to judge me too harshly. If you'd lived my life, you'd probably hate fat people even worse than I do.

"Don't judge me harshly for judging fat people harshly." No hypocrisy there. Nope, none at all.

[word]

Also, there's a long and sad story behind my attitude about this sort of thing, so try not to judge me too harshly. If you'd lived my life, you'd probably hate fat people even worse than I do.

"Don't judge me harshly for judging fat people harshly." No hypocrisy there. Nope, none at all.

We're all hypocrites. You're no exception. Also, you're twisting my words into something that I didn't actually say. I DO expect to be judged; I welcome it. I just hope people go easy on me. God knows I try to be pretty easy on others... mostly.

Besides, where did I "judge fat people harshly"? I'm being as kind as I know how. If I were to truly be unkind on this board, I have no doubt that I'd be banned in a heartbeat (and considering the fact that nobody gets banned here, even when they spam the boards with gibberish, that would be quite an accomplishment). I CERTAINLY did not "ridicule" anyone, and I think you're being quite obnoxious to imply that I did or would.

[ZacharyFukuiPA]

Hey guys, could we maybe lay off the personal sniping and instead just try to stay somewhere near the topic.
While presentation may be coarse in some instances, it really doesn't look like anyone is trying to ridicule people with weight issues here.

[Gizmotech]

Ohh, just one thing to toss in here.

Noone has commented on my size, other than the fact I'm 6' and naturally a 44 shoulder, therefore huge by Japanese standards. I have lost over 10kg (I think I'm up to 13, but I stopped caring a while ago), but noone has mentioned this to me. Noone here has said I'm fat or overweight... I think the only time anyone has ever even mentioned it to me was when I was drinking with the old men at a local izakaya and the bar tender came over and poked me in my gut which was pushin my shirt out (I had had quite a bit to drink).

[mikesalvatore]

At a prefectural meeting earlier this year, someone put up a slide of SKE48 which was greeted with no less than two "anorexia" comments by some of the noticeably larger members of the audience. I was appalled. How pathetic are we Westerners, to have become so wrapped up with the politically appropriate way to interact with overweight individuals that it has become acceptable to publicly jeer at healthy individuals? Disgusting. Statistically speaking, less than .5% of the American population suffers from anorexia (that's a high estimate, too (SCDoMH)). On the other hand, 34% of the American population is obese! An additional 34% is overweight (CDC; 2008-09)! Yet, it's apparently acceptable to criticize a thin person for being unhealthy. Ridiculous. It's high time we pulled our heads out of the sand, took a good look in the mirror, put down the Snickers bar and hit the gym.

If you're sensitive about your weight, get over it. The sooner you can face the facts about your body, the sooner you'll be able to start changing it for the better.

Hmmm... obesity epidemic aside, eating disorders are a big deal.
Anorexia is just one of the eating disorders, bulimia and binge eating disorder are more prevalent - though anorexia is the one that kills lots of people (it has the highest mortality rate among psychological disorders). I want to draw some attention to the vast difference between people having been formally diagnosed and living with anorexia, the people who struggle with unhealthy attitudes about their weight/body image and everything in between.

Eating disorders are not only way more common than 0.5% for anorexia alone, they are underdiagnosed because things like shame and anxiety make it really hard to seek help. Onset usually occurs during adolescence, but not always, and both men and women (as many as 1 in 4 are men) struggle with them well into adulthood. One study in Canada found disordered eating attitudes and behaviours in 27% of adolescent girls out of over 1700 that were interviewed. Overeating, binging, under-eating and working out too much can be symptoms.

Here are some resources to start with for anyone who wants to learn more about eating disorders:
Disordered eating attitudes and behaviours in teenaged girls: a school-based study
Understanding Statistics on Eating Disorders
Debunking Eating Disorder Myths

Why does this matter? As so many others have said, we're living in a culture that has different ideas about how to talk about body image than what most of us are used to. For the JETs out there who struggle with this, openly or not, this thread and/or comments from co-workers, students or others might have stirred up some difficult emotions. Not everyone is ready to "get over it" yet, and that's OK. If that's you and you want to talk about it, prefectural advisors and the people on the other end of the JETline make themselves available and they know about some other resources that can help if you want them, right?

[Siyris]

It really disturbs me how aggressive this thread has gotten. If you don't have helpful things to say, then keep quiet, or go vent on another website --

To the OP:
Please ignore the amount of hostility that has shown up here. It's atypical in my experience.

[Cytrix]

Female here, overweight, hourglass, stocky mcstock etc.

I haven't received any comments about my weight here...apart from once when I was eating a Noodle Cup that was 'light curry' flavour. All it was was the Vice-Principal asking if I was on a diet.

I've received plenty of comments and questions about my breasts (but only from the students) and that has honestly been it. I was concerned when I got over here that people would be all LOOK AT FATTY MCFATTYSON when I walked past, but nothing has happened. I'm in the midst of getting healthy myself (I'm a binge eater/Over-eater so I'm striving to break my emotional ties to food, and also to begin to enjoy exercise). I never believe in the 'got to get skinnier' thing...for me it's about being healthy (and being able to run faster than the slowest person during the zombie apocalypse).

I also never believe in BMI, largely because The All Blacks (International top team whoop whoop Rugby World Cup 2011 Cup winners) are all labelled as 'Obese' according to BMI. They're all big muscular men who run around on a field for 90 minutes. If that's not healthy, I don't know what is...

[jillybiini]

Thank you so much for the replies, guys! Mini-drama aside, this has been very helpful and encouraging. Don't worry about offending me or anything-- I'm perfectly aware of my circumstances weight-wise and I'm a tough gal! I don't mind poking fun at my own weight, so I can take some aggressive comments! The only comment that irked me was when someone implied that 1% of obesity is generated from medical conditions. That was quite ignorant, but I won't lecture. It's not my place to lecture, and if they wanted the truth, google is only a click away. Though, from that comment, I'm sure they're fine with being ignorant.

Also, interesting note on the breasts! Despite my size I actually have pretty small breasts, haha.
I'll be honest with my weight here. I'm 5'5" and about 240lbs. A beast by some standards; not so much by others. Despite my medical conditions, if I were to go on an intense diet I'm sure I could manage to get down to 200lbs. I refuse to blame all of my weight on medical conditions, despite my doctor's diagnosis. I can do with more exercise and less carbs.

But yeah- Despite my weight I'm not in too bad of shape. I sweat easily, but I can also easily climb of several flights of stairs before getting tired!

[word]

It's amazing how often this sort of debate follows this formula:

Some guy: "If you're overweight or obese, you should know that you may face increased risk of health-related complications and illnesses as a result. You should make an effort to improve your health and body."
Some overweight/obese person: "OMG ANOREXIA IS BAD Y U HATE FAT PEOPLE SO MUCH"

Hmmm... obesity epidemic aside...

This is exactly why there is an obesity epidemic. As soon as someone points it out, someone with some weight/self-esteem issues pops up and says...

eating disorders are a big deal.

This is a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_%28fallacy%29"]red herring[/url] in the absolute worst tradition of logical fallacies, and you, mike, are making my point for me. There is a double standard when it comes to weight and appearance, and it's damaging to thin people AND overweight/obese people. It insults and assumes the worst of thin people, and allows overweight/obese people to remain in denial about their weight and lifestyle.

Anorexia is just one of the eating disorders, bulimia and binge eating disorder are more prevalent

Yep. Combined, those three eating disorders affect less than four percent (at the very HIGHEST estimates) of the population of the US (I use the US here, because it is believed that individuals in the Western world are more susceptible to eating disorders, therefor our percentages are higher (in other words, I'm giving YOU the benefit of the doubt)).

Versus the 68% of the US population that is overweight/obese. Again, I'll ask you... which is the bigger (teehee) problem?

Eating disorders are not only way more common than 0.5% for anorexia alone...

I cited my source for that 0.5% statistic, and I was also overestimating there, actually. The real statistic is, in fact, a bit smaller. Would you care to cite your source for your "way more common" claim?

...they are underdiagnosed because things like shame and anxiety make it really hard to seek help.

Source?

Onset usually occurs during adolescence, but not always, and both men and women (as many as 1 in 4 are men) struggle with them well into adulthood. One study in Canada found disordered eating attitudes and behaviours in 27% of adolescent girls out of over 1700 that were interviewed.

Extremely misleading. That study used the EAT-26, a test based on informal self-responses. None of the girls actual eating habits were monitored or verified, none of the girls' overall body conditions or health levels were taken into account, and the results were presented in a "combined" form that made it impossible to tell the difference between the number of girls who starved themselves every day and the number of girls who ate McDonalds Big Macs every day. Furthermore:

The EAT-26 is not designed to make a diagnosis of an eating disorder or to take the place of a professional diagnosis or consultation. The EAT-26 alone does not yield a specific diagnosis of an eating disorder. Neither the EAT-26, nor any other screening instrument, has been established as highly efficient as the sole means for identifying eating disorders.

Here are some resources to start with for anyone who wants to learn more about eating disorders:
Disordered eating attitudes and behaviours in teenaged girls: a school-based study
Understanding Statistics on Eating Disorders
Debunking Eating Disorder Myths

I already discussed the first study; I think it's misleading at best. The third link doesn't actually seem to have any real science or statistics cited, it's just a sort of PR page. The second link is appears quite good, however. Let's take a look at some of what they've got to say:

The prevalence of anorexia and bulimia is estimated to be 0.3% and 1.0% among adolescent and young women respectively. Prevalence rates of anorexia and bulimia appear to increase during the transition from adolescence to young adulthood.
Hoek, H. W. (2007). Incidence, prevalence and mortality of anorexia and other eating disorders. Current Opinion in Psychiatry 19(4), 389-394.

Lifetime prevalence rates for AN, BN, and BED tend to be higher among women than in men.
- Lifetime prevalence of AN = 0.9% in women and 0.3% in men
- Lifetime prevalence of BN = 1.5% in women and 0.5% in men
- Lifetime prevalence of BED found to be 3.5% in women and 2.0% in men
The average lifetime duration of BN is found to be approximately 8.3 years.
Hudson, J. I., Hiripi, E., Pope, H. G. & Kessler, R. C. (2007). The Prevalence and Correlates of
Eating Disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication. Biological Psychiatry, 61(3), 348-358.

Okay, so according to the data that YOU linked, lifetime prevalence of AN is 0.9% in women and 0.3% in men. I believe I offered an estimation of 0.5% (men and women together), which, given those figures, seems pretty close, and you claimed it was "way more common" than that. It seems your own citation proves you're wrong?

Why does this matter?

It doesn't. The entire "anorexia/eating disorder" thing is, as I said before, just a distraction, a red herring, a bit of nonsense that seeks to derail anyone attempting to call attention to the terrifying obesity epidemic sweeping through the Western world. Anyone who attempts to call attention to it, or to tell someone they should be more careful what they eat, or that they should live a less sedentary lifestyle, or that they're getting a bit pudgy and should be careful usually gets shouted down with "OMG ANOREXIA Y U HATE FAT PEOPLE YOU SELF-ESTEEM-DESTROYING BULLY!" It's sad, really. No good deed goes unpunished, I suppose.

As so many others have said, we're living in a culture that has different ideas about how to talk about body image than what most of us are used to. For the JETs out there who struggle with this, openly or not, this thread and/or comments from co-workers, students or others might have stirred up some difficult emotions. Not everyone is ready to "get over it" yet, and that's OK.

No, it's not okay. If you're anorexic and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem. If you're an alcoholic and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem. If you're an addict and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem.

Likewise, if you're overweight or obese and you aren't ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay. People who care about you shouldn't let you ignore the problem... and yes, it is a problem.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/how-fat-kills-the-impact-of-weight-on-your-body
http://news.yahoo.com/obese-people-more-meds-study-191606720.html
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/08/-us-obesity-problem-impacts-automobile-safety-and-fuel-economy-.html
http://kidshealth.org/teen/food_fitness/dieting/obesity.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32170526/ns/health-health_care/t/nearly-percent-health-spending-obesity/#.TuBh5Uqj-Gg
http://news.illinois.edu/news/06/1024auto.html
http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/01/26/being-overweight-tied-to-anxiety-depression/22889.html
http://www.mamashealth.com/eat/oweightdam.asp
http://www.womenfitness.net/obes_and_preg.htm
http://www.50millionpounds.com/the_challenge/dangers_of_obesity/default.aspx
http://www.pregnancy-bliss.co.uk/overweight.html
http://nutrition-news.blogspot.com/2011/06/obesity-overweight-fat-pregnancy-risks.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2016792159_obesity21.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=8184975&page=1#.TuBh20qj-Gg
A couple of very controversial, yet damning studies--I intend absolutely no offense to anyone; however, I'm a whale biologist and I calls 'em like I sees 'em... and I always like to see what the science is telling me:
http://www.eatingdisordersonline.com/news/studies-and-research/controversial-study-links-low-intelligence-to-being-overweight
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1531487/The-greater-your-weight-the-lower-your-IQ-say-scientists.html


Yanno, the only reason I even brought up that anorexia anecdote was to illustrate the double standard that exists in Western culture--it's okay to berate thin people, but not okay to say ANYTHING to fat people.

Chris Rock tells it the way it is (language NSFW):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVIs0D2acgw

I'm a man of statistics. I tend to step back and focus on the big picture. I don't know that it's a good thing (MG sometimes gets annoyed with this way of thinking), but it means I pick my battles carefully. Where should I direct my efforts? To reducing a dangerous, deadly, preventable and treatable condition that affects less than one percent of the nation? Or to reducing a dangerous, deadly, preventable and treatable condition that affects more than 65% of the nation? Really. You tell me.

[word]

It really disturbs me how aggressive this thread has gotten. If you don't have helpful things to say, then keep quiet, or go vent on another website --

To the OP:
Please ignore the amount of hostility that has shown up here. It's atypical in my experience.

I quite agree! I think everyone should try to be as helpful as possible, and should try to only post when they have something truly relevant to contribute! If you're just going to pop on and tell someone off because they posted something you didn't like, go do it elsewhere!

[word]

The only comment that irked me was when someone implied that 1% of obesity is generated from medical conditions. That was quite ignorant, but I won't lecture. It's not my place to lecture, and if they wanted the truth, google is only a click away. Though, from that comment, I'm sure they're fine with being ignorant.

Well, it was a rough estimate. The actual statistic is difficult to determine, but 1% isn't too far off. Calling me ignorant because of my estimate is appallingly rude. Do you have a statistic to back up your implication that the percentage is higher (I assume that's what you're implying)? You say "google is only a click away"? Where do you think I got that statistic in the first place?

Let's check it out:

Some illnesses may lead to or are associated with weight gain or obesity. These include:

Hypothyroidism...
Cushing’s syndrome...
Polycystic ovary syndrome...

A doctor can tell whether there are underlying medical conditions that are causing weight gain or making weight loss difficult.

A quick statistics check can tell you that these illnesses are quite uncommon and produce significant weight-gain symptoms in far less than 1% of the human population (POS does affect close to 5% of the human population, but it doesn't produce significant weight-gain symptoms in a majority of cases). Again, I don't mean to dismiss or demean individuals who suffer from these legitimate medical conditions; I am quite sympathetic.

Are you making the "genetics" claim? That one is a bit less clear, so I steer clear of it. Obesity seems to run in families, to be certain, but it has never been positively ascertained that there is a genetic link, rather than environmental and cultural factors that result in family obesity, nor has it been established that genetic damage causes obesity, rather than obesity causing genetic damage (I've read studies that suggest both).

Look, you seem to think that I'm personally attacking you somehow, and I want you to know, that is absolutely not my intent. You've called me ignorant, dismissed my posts, but don't you see that such behavior is counterproductive to improving your health? You can't go through life rejecting the advice of people who are genuinely interested in helping you. Well, you can, I guess. Do you really want to?

[ladama]

My apologies, word. Though I’ll admit I did have snarky intentions with my comment, I didn’t mean to say or indicate you were ridiculing fat people nor do I feel you have.

It’s great you’re motivated when kids and coworkers comment on your weight, but I don’t think many people are going to share your reaction. I agree that in Japan, “fat” mostly just means “overweight”, it’s less commentary and more observation. But in our culture, “Fat” is all but a 4-letter-word, it carries many implications. To call someone “fat” is to call them lazy, ugly, sick, unlovable, unworthy. We can tell people new to Japan that they need to grow a thick skin and “get over it” if they’re called fat, but it’s going to take most people a while to undo that association of “fat” = mean-spirited insult, much less ever derive motivation from it.

Also, I take issue with the indication (not from anyone in particular in this thread, just from the internet in general) that losing weight is stupidly easy. Yes, for many, if not most, people, the solution to weight loss is pretty simple: eat less, exercise more. But just because the solution is simple doesn’t make it easy, if it were easy then we wouldn’t have sky high obesity rates. An overweight/obese person who wants to lose weight is going to have to break years of bad eating habits, and learn ignore his or her stomach, which has a funny way of convincing the brain that it’s being starved if it doesn’t get as many calories as usual. Someone who was obese as a child is much more likely to be obese as an adult, meaning he or she has to likely start from scratch in terms of learning to eat right and have a healthy lifestyle (and get past many years of schoolyard teasing). Many overweight/obese people have difficult emotional issue to work through; people suffering from depression often have weight trouble (and vise versa), victims of child abuse and/or sexual abuse are also more likely to have weight problems.

Not trying to make excuses (and I agree, at least in the States, we make far too many excuses) just trying to say that weight loss isn’t always as cut and dried “step 1: decide to lose weight, step 2: lose weight”.

[Joanna_IshikawaPA]

Just another anecdote from an overweight girl.

In regards to comments from other people, I've never had an expat say a demeaning word to me (in person). I've never had a Japanese adult say anything negative about my weight, and only a few have commented on my 10kg weightloss since getting here. And at 10kg lower than I started, my lunch ladies have FINALLY stopped trying to feed me double portions. I have, however, encountered a LOT of students, especially elementary boys, who comment on my weight. Sometimes they're clearly trying to be mean and in a few cases the kids seemed genuinely curious as to why I'm big. Strangely enough, the comments didn't start until I'd lost at least 5kg. That's a mystery to me.

As for clothes, I haven't found a single pair of pants here that fits me, but I also haven't gone in search of any plus size stores. I haven't shopped online because I don't find it very convenient for clothes shopping. I've merely worn the clothes I brought and have recently started holding up all my bottoms with pins or my hands (I can't run in any of my work clothes without pantsing myself, which is a problem on the playground at elementary school). I have, however, been able to get some tops and dresses that fit. My arms and torso are fairly long, but I've still picked up some pieces. A trip to Hong Kong was a godsend in that regard. I'm totally unable to buy shoes as I'm a 26cm and most stores only go up to 24.5 (and the ones that go larger can be extremely expensive, in the $300USD range).

Hope that gives the OP a little more useful info!

Edit: I take back my comment that no adult has mentioned my weight. Once, a middle aged man who I assume was drunk chased me down the street yelling the equivalent of, "Fatty! Fatty!"

[mikesalvatore]

lots of things

I agree with most of what you have to say about obesity. Your harsh "whale biology" approach is harsh, but your points are valid.
We don't need to have a stats war here. We are talking about different things, and intertwined as they may be, I think we are both trying to convey the same message: We all have a lot to lose if we don't make healthy lifestyle choices. Obesity and eating disorders are both very bad things and they are both associated with mental health. Yes, obesity is way more prevalent, but there are enough people who read these message boards for there to be a good chance of different people struggling with both issues to be reading this.

No, it's not okay. If you're anorexic and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem. If you're an alcoholic and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem. If you're an addict and you're not ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay, and people who care about you won't let you ignore the problem.

Likewise, if you're overweight or obese and you aren't ready to "get over it" yet, that's not okay. People who care about you shouldn't let you ignore the problem... and yes, it is a problem.

Therefore, getting help is a good idea. Getting over an eating disorder or an obesity problem doesn't happen overnight (this is what I meant about the "getting over it" comment. Word, thank you for giving me an opportunity to clarify). Even though it's hard, talking to someone about it can make a big difference.

[jillybiini]

word, I didn't feel like you were attacking me. If I did, wouldn't you think I would have named names? I didn't dismiss your post at all- I simply stated that I only had problems with one particular post and didn't even out you as the author of it. I could care less WHO said it, it was just that fact that it was mentioned bug me. To which I aforementioned not a single other post bugging me, and in fact, all the other posts being quite helpful-- Yours included. Just because I mentioned one single post shouldn't mean you have to get on the defensive. If it wasn't clear, I was extremely grateful to all the posts; and honestly, if that wasn't clear enough, I apologize. I never meant to antagonize you, or anyone else in this thread. I am, after-all, the one originally seeking opinions and experiences.

If you're still curious, it's not genetic. I'm, thankfully, the first one in my family to have PCOS, hypothyroidism, and another complication that I'd rather not get into. However, as stated before, I do have a habit of making unfortunate eating decisions due to convenience, price, and general picky-ness. The picky-ness I am doing my best to overcome, but I have an unfortunate gag reflex.

Kahokkuri, thanks for the experiences! I really appreciate it!