Vegetarians

[lenamarie0485]

I've even been flat-out lied to. (Lied to not including the mindset that little chunks/broth don't count.)

I flip flop between being a vegetarian and eating meat (fish & chicken) , and wanting to go vegan (lactose intolerant so that will be easy). I guess I'll know which lifestyle change I will follow when the time comes. But during the times of when I was following a vegetarian diet, I collected a grand list of websites of places in Japan that serve Vegan/Vegetarian/Macrobiotic cuisine! Here is just a blip of some of the sites I have found. I can make a full blown resource page on my blog if anyone is interested.

http://www.veganjapan.net/index_engl.html
http://www.karuna.co.jp/
http://vege-navi.jp/?m=v&v=2&l=1　＊this one you can look up by area
http://store.alishan.jp/
http://www.vegmag.org/ ＊this one you can look up by area

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ztf2dJEyqg Video on a Vegetarian Junk Food restuarant

[ljoekelsoey4]

refusing to eat meat on moral principles is fine and your own choice of course, however the catch being if you openly dismiss meat-eating as 'wrong' you are throwing people who do eat meat into that category, that they are doing something wrong. even though you are happy for other people to eat it, thats just that nature of opinion, that that IS the message that comes accross. im well aware that vast majority of veggies do not try to force their opinions on others but by the vary nature that you have them and express them publically, quite often you will ellicit a defensive reaction from people who do eat meat.

just my opinion, not really trying to argue anything to be honest

also, took me about 15 minutes to word that paragraph as to not offend anyone or sound anti-veggie

[ljoekelsoey4]

refusing to eat meat on moral principles is fine and your own choice of course, however the catch being if you openly dismiss meat-eating as 'wrong' you are throwing people who do eat meat into that category, that they are doing something wrong. even though you are happy for other people to eat it, thats just that nature of opinion, that that IS the message that comes accross. im well aware that vast majority of veggies do not try to force their opinions on others but by the vary nature that you have them and express them publically, quite often you will ellicit a defensive reaction from people who do eat meat.

just my opinion, not really trying to argue anything to be honest

also, took me about 15 minutes to word that paragraph as to not offend anyone or sound anti-veggie

allow me to try and clarify my point;

you say you dont eat meat because you dont approve of killing animals for food, you are essentially implying that you think me eating meat is wrong. i know, I KNOW the majority dont think this, but that is the way it comes accross, unless you totally approve of double standards and whats ok for one person may not be ok for another.

difficult subject...

[mothsafterglow]

refusing to eat meat on moral principles is fine and your own choice of course, however the catch being if you openly dismiss meat-eating as 'wrong' you are throwing people who do eat meat into that category, that they are doing something wrong. even though you are happy for other people to eat it, thats just that nature of opinion, that that IS the message that comes accross. im well aware that vast majority of veggies do not try to force their opinions on others but by the vary nature that you have them and express them publically, quite often you will ellicit a defensive reaction from people who do eat meat.

just my opinion, not really trying to argue anything to be honest

also, took me about 15 minutes to word that paragraph as to not offend anyone or sound anti-veggie

allow me to try and clarify my point;

you say you dont eat meat because you dont approve of killing animals for food, you are essentially implying that you think me eating meat is wrong. i know, I KNOW the majority dont think this, but that is the way it comes accross, unless you totally approve of double standards and whats ok for one person may not be ok for another.

difficult subject...

Well-worded, but this doesn't specifically speak to Japan. This happens everywhere, as most of us who are veggie know. A declaration that you don't eat meat puts people on the defensive. We're all accustomed to handling this, just the cultural context that's changing. There are plenty of other really new things we're all going to have to deal with that are more pressing than this issue.

[Musashi]

refusing to eat meat on moral principles is fine and your own choice of course, however the catch being if you openly dismiss meat-eating as 'wrong' you are throwing people who do eat meat into that category, that they are doing something wrong. even though you are happy for other people to eat it, thats just that nature of opinion, that that IS the message that comes accross. im well aware that vast majority of veggies do not try to force their opinions on others but by the vary nature that you have them and express them publically, quite often you will ellicit a defensive reaction from people who do eat meat.

just my opinion, not really trying to argue anything to be honest

also, took me about 15 minutes to word that paragraph as to not offend anyone or sound anti-veggie

allow me to try and clarify my point;

you say you dont eat meat because you dont approve of killing animals for food, you are essentially implying that you think me eating meat is wrong. i know, I KNOW the majority dont think this, but that is the way it comes accross, unless you totally approve of double standards and whats ok for one person may not be ok for another.

difficult subject...

Well-worded, but this doesn't specifically speak to Japan. This happens everywhere, as most of us who are veggie know. A declaration that you don't eat meat puts people on the defensive. We're all accustomed to handling this, just the cultural context that's changing. There are plenty of other really new things we're all going to have to deal with that are more pressing than this issue.

It's good you are at least a bit prepared.

I was going to say that some restaurants are very strict about substitutions.

Just yesterday I was talking with a Japanese friend about restaurant differences and randomly she mentioned that when she was a waitress some vegans came in and asked not to have the sauces or anything and just the vegetables.

She explained it to the cooks that it was their culture, but they wouldn't do it cause it was against the rules and the cooks didn't " consider it food. " So it could happen even for minor substitutes too.

A bit related, but once I ordered something from mos burger and they messed up the order.

I told them, and when they brought out the right burger they were surprised I ate the wrong one. They actually wanted to take it back and toss it in the garbage! Lol

Anyhow my point is that gaijin's are known for their frivolous requests. So don't be shocked and angered if your being vegetarian or veganism gets tossed into that category by some people in Japan.

[ljoekelsoey4]

ahh yeh, in the scheme of things, we are moving to japan to teach in state schools, so one's eating habits are rather frivolous in comparison just wanted to give my 2 cents

[CaseyJ_AkitaPA]

you say you dont eat meat because you dont approve of killing animals for food, you are essentially implying that you think me eating meat is wrong. i know, I KNOW the majority dont think this, but that is the way it comes accross, unless you totally approve of double standards and whats ok for one person may not be ok for another.

difficult subject...

I would hope that we all hold double standards to some extent. I, for one, would like to think that I hold myself to a higher standard of behavior than the exchange students who run around every weekend in the city absolutely wasted. However, it is their right to do that and I have no problem with them doing it. Just because I choose to make a decision for reasons that are entirely my own does not mean that I am passing judgement/looking down on everyone who chooses something else.

ahh yeh, in the scheme of things, we are moving to japan to teach in state schools, so one's eating habits are rather frivolous in comparison just wanted to give my 2 cents

We are also going over to teach about our cultural values as well. (It is oft pointed out that Exchange comes before Teaching in the acronym J.E.T.) I think dietary habits are a huge part of our cultural identity, and very worth talking about. In no way am i saying that I advocate preaching your own worldview to schoolchildren, however I don't think informing the people around you about your country's attitudes regarding food is frivolous.

[ljoekelsoey4]

you say you dont eat meat because you dont approve of killing animals for food, you are essentially implying that you think me eating meat is wrong. i know, I KNOW the majority dont think this, but that is the way it comes accross, unless you totally approve of double standards and whats ok for one person may not be ok for another.

difficult subject...

I would hope that we all hold double standards to some extent. I, for one, would like to think that I hold myself to a higher standard of behavior than the exchange students who run around every weekend in the city absolutely wasted. However, it is their right to do that and I have no problem with them doing it. Just because I choose to make a decision for reasons that are entirely my own does not mean that I am passing judgement/looking down on everyone who chooses something else.

yes that was kind of my point, although i dont think i illustrated it very well. that you do not mean to pass judgment and conciously you do not, just by the nature of expressing an opinion such as this that people assume that you think what they are doing is wrong. i suppose its somewhat analagous to me not eating processed meat; ill simply say i just dont eat it, rather than explaining why i dont like 'mystery meats', because people will assume you are looking down on them because they do like eating them.

[DjinnWired]

http://sopheliajapan.blogspot.jp/2012/02/introduction-tovegetarian-living-in.html

/shameless self promotion

[ljoekelsoey4]

http://sopheliajapan.blogspot.jp/2012/02/introduction-tovegetarian-living-in.html

/shameless self promotion

love it

[Cytrix]

Just recently had a zazen retreat where the idea of dualism and labels came about. By giving yourself a label (whether vegetarian, omnivore, christian, straight, gay, liberal etc.) you're instantly creating that idea of 'you and me' or 'the other'...hence why I imagine so many people that label themselves as 'vegetarian' or vegan face a lot of criticism and angst from people who do not follow a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. Especially when you tag on things like 'ethics' and 'morals'. It's essentially saying 'You are unethical and immoral in my views', no matter what label you give yourself. It's a pretty harsh statement, and hence why a lot of people get so defensive about meat eating. I know this because I used to be one of these angry people.

I now live a largely vegetarian lifestyle...but I do not label myself as vegetarian. I eat what is right by me, and at the moment it just happens to be fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts, eggs, tofu, and the odd piece of fish here and there. If meat is given to me in a way I can't 'control' (as in at an enkai or at somebody's house) I will not sit there and state that I won't eat it because I don't eat meat or am 'vegetarian'. I will eat a little. A little will not harm me (well as long as I still have those enzymes needed to break down the meat proteins!). It's about being understanding and flexible on both sides.

When ordering you can state no meat...you can even tell them no bacon, no ham, no chicken no anything like that, if you wish. If it comes out with a little bit on it (because sometimes it happens, due to language differences), it's easy to push it to the side if you do not wish to eat it. Remember that everyone has different views, different beliefs, different morals and different values. It's nobody's right to militantly push it on someone by arguing about YOUR diet and how THEIR diet is wrong.

I'm not saying shut up and not say anything. I'm saying you can explain your lifestyle to people and why you choose to do it. But be aware that labels create that idea of 'other' (on both sides!) and others can easily take offense.

I've had no issues with living my lifestyle for the last two months now. It's been about that long since I last had meat...it IS possible and relatively easy to eat the way you wish here in Japan.

[Liz Okinawa PA]

But be aware that labels create that idea of 'other' (on both sides!) and others can easily take offense.

Bingo. You've hit the nail on the head.

I don't eat meat because I think the way animals are slaughtered--see the latest Human Association into Tyson on Yahoo! just yesterday--is morally wrong. As others have said, others who do eat meat sometimes get offended by this, feeling judged.

Cytrix, you--and others--have said you eat meat when others offer it to you, because you feel doing otherwise is rude. That, too, is judgment. You judge it morally wrong to possibly offend others, and some people who think that way acted angry at we vegetarians who don't do as THEY do.

If others aren't going to change their eating habits to suit me, why would I change mine to suit them? If I'm not eating meat in front of them and that means I'm being rude, doesn't that mean them eating meat in front of me means they're judging me and my lifestyle too ("how stupid!" "how sentimental!")? Doesn't telling me I'm being rude--not you, Cytrix, but speaking generally in this thread--judge me and my actions? How is that judgment of my actions less rude, more right, than my judgment for myself?

Cytrix, you're right, people WILL feel judged. This gives me two choices: I can hide who I am and what I believe to be sensitive to those around me or I can be true to myself and accept that sometimes people will be hurt. Making that choice requires making a judgment, and I've made it, just as those who think I'm rude for making that judgment have made their own judgment.

If anyone can think of a way to solve the above without making any judgment at any point about anyone or ever offending anybody, that'll be a pretty incredible feat. In the meantime, I want to be as polite and understanding to as many people as I can, while living in a way that won't make me hate myself, which means no eating meat, either alone or with others.

[Cytrix]

Coming from a farm where we only ate the meat we raised/culled in the best most humane way possible, I try to only eat meat that has been raised in a similar fashion. However, it's very hard to know where the meat comes from in our society unless you raise it yourself. Hence my decision not to outwardly seek out meat in my diet. In the last two months (with numerous meals out with people and at friends houses) I haven't been given meat once.

It is VERY easy to explain to people at the start of a meal or at an invitation that you just don't eat meat, or can't eat meat. You don't need to explain why, you don't need to go into semantics and explain why you think being a vegetarian/vegan is a: healthier, b: better for the environment c: ethical etc. etc. etc. You can just state that you don't eat meat (or can't), and it's a personal thing. You can then only ask the person to respect that, as you (should) do with their choices. Typically the person will be accommodating and interested and ask about your diet etc. and you can explain then...but I've seen far too many people start off conversations straight away with 'Oh I'm vegetarian. I think it's wrong to eat animals' which creates that dualism.

[NiigataPAKatrina]

You don't need to explain why, you don't need to go into semantics and explain why you think being a vegetarian/vegan is a: healthier, b: better for the environment c: ethical etc. etc. etc. You can just state that you don't eat meat (or can't), and it's a personal thing.

When did any of us say to do that? This thread isn't about how to convert Japanese people to a vegetarian lifestyle, it's about how to get by in Japan as a vegetarian. Yes, there are some people who launch into their beliefs and lecture people at every chance they get, but they are a minority in the greater vegetarian community. Implying that we all go around preaching about animal rights/environmental issues/ethics/health is once again passing judgement on us.

[Cytrix]

Woah woah woah I am NOT saying anyone has said this on this thread. Calm down peeps. I am saying in general that this is, in my opinion, one way to deal with these sorts of things like diet. The you is a general you, not a specific you. I'm not saying people instantly go 'I do this because of this'. It's just that pretty much every person I have met that labels themselves as vegetarian states a reason straight afterwards. Not just leaves it at 'I don't eat meat'.

As I have stated before I am largely a vegetarian myself as in I do not choose to eat meat unless it is unavoidable. I am yet to be in a situation where this is the case.

I have provided plenty of advice in here about how to live a vegetarian lifestyle easily in Japan, websites etc. to find things online etc.. I am NOT attacking anybody in here! I am all for living the lifestyle you choose, as long as it does not harm others, which is certainly something vegetarian/veganism does not do. I'm just giving one way to explain things to people that may ask over here. It's exactly the way my vegetarian JTE acts in situations as she has explained to me.