Dealing with negative co-workers.

[coop52]

Hoo boy, let's first just calm down a bit, Staticnz. It seems like you're really getting worked up over this.

I understand that you want to do something cool for your kids and want to go above and beyond. But, you have to also realize is that there's just a lot of things we can't do. Your idea was just too big for this time, and it would have been better to do something smaller. An English board, newsletter, or poster or something would have probably gone over a lot better. From a Japanese perspective, it's unthinkable for a new person (you'll be thought of as a new person until your second year or so) to make huge changes at first. I can see why they told you no; your idea was huge, lacked a clear goal or focus, and would require a lot of planning. I understand the desire to change things, but you have to play the game by their rules.

Even then, you just have to accept that the role of ALT in the school system isn't going to change. That doesn't mean you shouldn't want to be involved in your school. It just means you can only change things for your school. Unfortunately, I think that you might have a hard time if this incident left a bad impression. First impressions are everything here. Since your idea didn't go over as well as you wanted, they probably won't let you do other stuff like it.

Finally, you should just listen to the people who've replied to you. We've all been here longer (some of us a whole lot longer) and are only trying to help. Just remember, if you don't take our advice, you could risk seriously hurting your relationship with your school and having a horrible experience.

[trout501]

You are a douchebag.

You flatter me.

[AVN]

I suppose I crave some structure, and some OFFICIAL responsibilities. However I think many folks think differently and thus will defend to death the idea of coming up things on your own instead of being an actual full time member. And am I overpaid for what I do? Hell yes I am. In fact it makes me think the Japanese government needs to shake things up a bit. I guess they started by cutting JET pay next year, so that's something, but patching up the programme would be preferable.

I just love that when I notice issues with the role it has to be from some great, insane paranoid fantasy of mine, and entertaining the notion that there are any problems shows I'm just a huge problem and so egotistical and out of control. So stupid!

I completely understand how you feel. When I arrived I saw so much I thought I could improve on or help out with. The thing is, like some other people pointed out, I was new to the job (not to teaching though) and I was new to the schools. This means (for you) and meant (for me) I had to earn this respect. Especially in Japan you have to start out small or you might come across as rude and condescending to the experienced teachers who know their students very well.
At first I did things as they asked or I was shown. Then after showing I respected the way things were done and that I was a good caring teacher I started to make suggestions. At first they were small like doing activities instead of spelling tests for the first 10 minutes of every class. At first we started doing this a few times a month and then when my JTE saw the students liked it and he told me he was happy I suggested doing it more and he accepted. Now we cut the spelling, though we do still do some phonics worksheets but they're from a new source I prefer and so does he.
Then I tried to suggest sometimes doing full class activities instead of only 10 minutes. So this year we finished the year playing Mario and the students loved it. He gives me feedback after class a lot sometimes I agree sometimes I don't but I try to adapt things to take on his advice when it works.
Now I presented starting a club to him, after almost 2 years here. The club will involve games, activities, cooking, music etc twice a month instead of their regular clubs. He listened and was very quickly on board, but I don't think he would have been if I suggested it any earlier.

I guess the key advice is start small, earn their trust and respect. Build to these things. Then when the next ALT comes they'll be able to continue building on it.

Patience and commitment is key!

Also I've made huge changes in the ES system but again I started small and built up and it took a lot of time, work and tinkering.

[Staticnz]

I just love that when I notice issues with the role it has to be from some great, insane paranoid fantasy of mine, and entertaining the notion that there are any problems shows I'm just a huge problem and so egotistical and out of control. So stupid!

We're not saying these issues are from a paranoid fantasy; we're saying that you're just facing the same problems every other ALT has faced for the last 20(?) years of the JET programme. No one else has been able to change the system's attitude to ALTs, and neither will you. Certainly not by "forcing" them to let you be super-energetic-international-miracle-ALT. If you want to try and change your school's attitude, good luck to you! But there's reasons no one else has changed attitudes in all these years... Also remember the saying "the nail that stands out gets hammered down"; if it wasn't originally Japanese, it should have been.

As for there being no justification behind the "no"... First, do they have to give you one? They're your bosses, you're the employee. If boss says "no", then ultimately the answer is no. Second, how's your Japanese? Depending on the abilities of the JTEs, they may not know how to justify their "no" in English. If your Japanese is good, try (politely) asking why in their language.

All of that is fair enough, I was merely reacting to the tenor of the feedback I've received. It always feels like if there is a general consensus you are supposed to just lay down your arms and submit to the supposedly better judgment of your peers. However there are other sayings like 'only dead fish go with the flow'.

Obviously I'm frustrated by things, so the only recourse is to think of ways of shaking things up a bit. And no I'm not talking about tearing down the whole system using my superpowers, just implementing new ideas and challenging the indifference.

My Japanese is reasonable but I'm always trying to get better. Quite the uphill battle.

[Staticnz]

Hoo boy, let's first just calm down a bit, Staticnz. It seems like you're really getting worked up over this.

I understand that you want to do something cool for your kids and want to go above and beyond. But, you have to also realize is that there's just a lot of things we can't do. Your idea was just too big for this time, and it would have been better to do something smaller. An English board, newsletter, or poster or something would have probably gone over a lot better. From a Japanese perspective, it's unthinkable for a new person (you'll be thought of as a new person until your second year or so) to make huge changes at first. I can see why they told you no; your idea was huge, lacked a clear goal or focus, and would require a lot of planning. I understand the desire to change things, but you have to play the game by their rules.

Even then, you just have to accept that the role of ALT in the school system isn't going to change. That doesn't mean you shouldn't want to be involved in your school. It just means you can only change things for your school. Unfortunately, I think that you might have a hard time if this incident left a bad impression. First impressions are everything here. Since your idea didn't go over as well as you wanted, they probably won't let you do other stuff like it.

Finally, you should just listen to the people who've replied to you. We've all been here longer (some of us a whole lot longer) and are only trying to help. Just remember, if you don't take our advice, you could risk seriously hurting your relationship with your school and having a horrible experience.

It SEEMS like I'm getting 'really worked up', but I'm actually not. It's just the end of the term so I have no classes and things are in disarray, and I'm kinda bored of studying Japanese and reading at the moment so I thought I'd have a forum suru. 'Idle hands are the devil's playthings', basically.

And again, you're talking like you know everything, but my idea was not huge. Where is this idea coming from? Is putting on one special event really so 'huge'? Someone said I'm a 'maverick'. I don't get this stuff at all.

And the students enjoyed themselves enough. It didn't create a 'negative' impression as you say, it did however spark a negative reaction in the sense that teachers were not keen to contribute. They didn't recoil in horror and I'm not a pariah. I would wager almost everyone has already forgotten I did it, so you saying teachers won't want to work with me now is also nonsense.

I still have a reasonable relationship with most people here. It is merely that I want to expand what I do in my role. That's all.

[Staticnz]

You are a douchebag.

You flatter me.

I never actually directly called you a douchebag. I said people who assume things about people tend to be douchebags, and that YOU were characterizing ME as a douchebag.

Don't misquote me.

[Antonath]

It always feels like if there is a general consensus you are supposed to just lay down your arms and submit to the supposedly better judgment of your peers.

This is Japan; this is exactly how things work over here.

However there are other sayings like 'only dead fish go with the flow'.

This is Japan; the dead fish goes in the school lunches. Whole.

[trout501]

You are a douchebag.

You flatter me.

I never actually directly called you a douchebag. I said people who assume things about people tend to be douchebags, and that YOU were characterizing ME as a douchebag.

Don't misquote me.

Perhaps an apology is in order? Personally, I stopped reading your post when you said I do things in a "douchey" way.

[coop52]

From your first post:

first the students get to listen to my self written songs, then eat food from New Zealand (my country), then learn about the country through photos, a big map I have with lots of information in English and Japanese, and conversation. Finally I will ask them to teach me about their favorite things, like music, films, anime, manga, in a book I have for the purpose of their teaching me something about Japan.

That's 4 big things to prepare(counting them as songs, food, learning about NZ, and teaching you about stuff they like), plus the last two sound extremely vague. Learn exactly what about NZ? How do they teach you about so many things at once? It sounds really overwhelming. Maybe if you had 2 or 3 hours, but there's just no way to accomplish that much stuff in any meaningful way in 50 minutes.

Even if you think that everything's ok with your teachers, there's no guarantee that they feel that way. Japanese people are pretty good at hiding their real feelings about stuff, and they may be harboring some dislike. Someone commented that they may feel insulted by the new kid coming in and doing huge things right off the bat, and they're right. For a new Japanese worker, the best thing for them to do for the first year is to just shut up and listen. They're supposed to spend a long time learning before they come up with their own ideas. No matter how well your JTEs speak English, they're still Japanese and have that cultural understanding. They may give you some leeway because you are foreign, but it just gives a bad impression of foreigners in general if you are too pushy.

[agrilledfish]

I agree that it's best to introduce activities slowly. Start with a casual suggestion to test the waters until they get used to the idea. Using Japanese helps a lot. I've found my interactions progress much more smoothly if I figure out how to explain my activity in Japanese before approaching the teacher. If I start trying to explain an activity in English, the dread on their face is palpable, and they are much more likely to have a negative reaction.

Also, I'd like to reiterate that it's important to be able to do everything yourself. If your activity makes any extra work for the other teachers, of course they won't like it - they're busy enough with their own work.

Negativity breeds negativity. Instead of getting angry at your coworkers, take a step back and look at things from their point of view. It's not impossible to make what you want happen, you just need to work within the system instead of against it.

[greengoo]

Dear everyone involved in this thread: thank you for making laugh so hard I cried.

[Cytrix]

As others have said, when it comes to doing something like this in Japan you have to start with small things and work your way up. You can't challenge the system with such a huge activity/aim like this...it will only prevent good relationships when it is turned down and cause some strife for any future ideas/projects.

When I discussed a rather creative idea with my main JTE at one of my schools the idea was said to be too difficult as 'Japanese students aren't creative'. So instead of that I started slowly building in little creative activities into my lessons so the JTE began to warm up to the idea. Then when I proposed the idea again he was all for it as he had seen what the students had done.

At my base school I worked over a good two months to get an English board implemented and okayed by introducing the idea and gradually going through the steps for it. Now I'm holding Media Studies literacy/Horror Film lectures for the 三年生, set up email exchanges between New Zealand schools and my schools and there is a proposed exchange from one of the NZ schools to my area now.

Start small and work your way up to the big things! It takes time but stay positive about it, and patient

[notJiggit]

Wow, I usually just lurk here but all the negativity in this thread made me feel I had to comment.

First of all, why are you all so eager to put this guy down? Like he said, he's just trying to engage with the kids and teach them about other cultures. I mean obviously it's difficult sometimes to persuade Japanese people to do exactly what you'd like, but ALTs should be able to rock the boat a little. Otherwise why would we even be here? I know a lot of JETs get settled into the easy life here and are happy to play the human tape recorder role, but you don't have to try and discourage someone who genuinely wants to make a difference. And why wouldn't the kids want to listen to his music and eat foods? Sounds fun to me, and I'd rather do that than a regular class.

Staticnz, don't overthink your JTE's resistance. They were probably just having a bad day or something when you initially proposed it and now don't want to lose face by backing down. Remember that the honour system is very big here and it can cause a lot of stubbornness when the JTEs find the ALT won't back down quite so readily. The thing is that if you are always backing down to them then you'll never get anything done. Remember the JTEs and ALTs are supposed to be a team - you need to work together to form classes, which means there should be at least some give and take. Too many ALTs are happy to sit back and enjoy the ride imo, which means that the kids are just going to get regular lessons except with a JTE reading the textbook out loud instead of the CD. And like you said, what's the point of having an ALT if they aren't going to get utilized?

Really it's just a matter of the JTEs not liking to be taken out of their comfort zone, but that's not a good reason to give kids a substandard education. If you need to take them out of that comfort zone then that's what you need to do. Like some of the less pessimistic posters have said, maybe you could have gone at it in a slightly more diplomatic way, but I think you have the right kinds of ideas to be honest. I think you realise that if the ALTs don't make a difference while they're in Japan they might as well not bother. And perhaps too many of the people posting here are those who don't bother!

[Gizmotech]

Carebear Stare!!!!!!

Well thank you, I appreciate your 'carebear' (!?!?!) (I like how if you are forced to say something positive it's such a bad thing for you) tip.

If I said what I really think in my usual tone I would be banned from the forums. Be thankful for that I find my inner carebear every now and then.

It is actually useful so I appreciate it.

However, yes, my entire orientation in my home country was based around cultural exchange. English teaching itself was scarcely mentioned at all. That's just how it was.

So you got baited and switched because you failed to do appropriate research about the position prior to departure and believed the salesman at the front door. Like has been previously mentioned, we are all providing advice because this has been/will be the ALT role for years to come. Expecting the recruiters message of internationalization to be the job is like going into a soapland and asking for the hotty... regardless how much you hope you know you're getting the obaasan with 2 teeth at the end of the day. Welcome to Japan.

Points about job, evaluation of attitude based on posts, work within your means.

Well your 'anti-carebear' advice is indeed rather awful.

I think your inability to grasp the reality of the situation is rather awful as well, but I opted not to say that.

I'm not of the belief that intention is irrelevant, as folks often say. If I give my genuine point of view, it being perceived as 'negative' actually has nothing to do with the substance of what I'm saying. A negative point of view to me is one given in a state of base negativity, which I did not do. In fact, so called 'negativity' can be positive if it is used to shed light on problems and create discussion to fix things.

Therefore, you are merely besmirching my motives, which I think is not cool or at all useful.

I criticised the teachers I talked to as the 'negativity' they provided actually had no positive use. It was just hum harr for it's own sake.

I'm not sure what the purpose of explaining negativity to me was. If you are implying that my intention is to be negative, that is hardly the case. I am being rational, there is a difference. I absolutely besmirched your motives though, because I think you have a limited grasp of the reality of your situation.

How people analyzed you

But it is dismissive to assume things about someone and then go from there to give criticism. It just is!

Those so called forum posts you quoted (most of which you actually just made up) would have it seem I'm running around the school bothering everyone I can about my idea, and going to the kyoto and kouchou senseis and bashing them over the head with all these ridiculous over the top ideas, and expecting everyone to bend over backwards and do what I say...so on...that the idea I have is extremely unreasonable and really terrible and crappy and has no use whatsoever...

All of which is total, unmitigated bullcrap. So what can I do with it.

I am many things, however I do not make things up. Keep your allegations civil. I won't bother listing them all, but to see the posts in question, look at who you replied to in sequence earlier today (and later today for that matter). Yes, these posts are assuming you're doing the equivalent act to what you've just described. As AVnichols points out, things need to be done in small chunks regardless if you are fresh to the job or not. This is Japan and as Antonath points "The nail that sticks up..."

Job stuff

Well I want to live to work...that's just the way I'm wired. I did a lot of contracting and temp work back home and I was always irked then about not being a full team member, so I feel like I have to make my own way in life. So I will be doing this job for a few years but then I think I have to follow my own ambitions and gamble with failure.

I would seriously reconsider doing this job for several years based on your previous comments about requiring structure, feedback, official status, etc. You are not a Japanese Teacher, you are a walking English machine. You have similar status at the school to the local photocopier and require significantly less paperwork to replace. This status will not change regardless how many overly complicated events you plan.

Three responses

You need to know what I actually mean by 'veil of indifference'. I'm clearly not saying they are indifferent about their jobs, their schools, their lives, their students, doing things...

I'm talking solely in relation to the ALT role. Now you reply it isn't their job to give a crap. EXACTLY. The role is not integrated into the schools! It is essentially a temp role in nature. If there were actual responsibilities, not to mention a true guideline or process to the job, how would that not be better?

Instead you keep characterising that I'm just saying oh all the teachers are terrible people who don't care about living and they all hate me. I'm not saying any of those things. Where do you think 'every situation is different' really came from? Besides some situational things, really the lack of clarity to the ALT job.

I'm not saying they're indifferent to their jobs at all, thank you. I am saying they are indifferent to you. Of COURSE the role isn't integrated into the schools. The schools have a requirement for this very expensive biological dictionary to be present because of the positive feel good image having a token object foreigner in the classroom makes. We do not have responsibilities because WE ARE NOT TEACHERS. PERIOD. In most cases ALTs don't even have a proper teaching degree (fly by night TESL/TEFL degrees do not count) nor do they even have education in Linguistics. I wouldn't give responsibilities to an unqualified over achieving fresh uni grad, especially if I had just worked for the past 6 years to get my position and responsibilities myself. I am not characterizing you in any particular way, other than being overly aggressive and unobservant. I would argue that you are probably seeing within my replies qualities within yourself that might need to be looked at more closely.

Ohh and here I thought ESID meant Eat Sushi In Diapers. Well now I know, and knowing is part of the battle. (This is sarcasm, but feel free to take it as a personal assault... you likely will anyways.)

I suppose I crave some structure, and some OFFICIAL responsibilities. However I think many folks think differently and thus will defend to death the idea of coming up things on your own instead of being an actual full time member. And am I overpaid for what I do? Hell yes I am. In fact it makes me think the Japanese government needs to shake things up a bit. I guess they started by cutting JET pay next year, so that's something, but patching up the programme would be preferable.

I'm quite impressed by your comments so far, but here they seem to just fall apart. Your first paragraph is two separate ideas merged together without any element of cohesion. You need to stay on topic more clearly, or go back to first year uni and relearn what a paragraph is for. As for the second part of it, few people will disagree with being over paid for this job, but what does it matter? Furthermore what did that have to do with any of my three points?

I just love that when I notice issues with the role it has to be from some great, insane paranoid fantasy of mine, and entertaining the notion that there are any problems shows I'm just a huge problem and so egotistical and out of control. So stupid!

Your noticing issues is our old story. We've seen this, read about this, identified this, and come to one rather substantial conclusion: It is not our job to change the system in any way, and having conversations in which we vent about our in ability to adapt to the situation around us is rather pointless. This is especially true when we see these conversations occur when the individual obviously has no idea what the purpose of the program is for, is unobservant to his superiors intentions or culture, and is attempting to rock the boat.

I would argue that your lack of observation of the individuals and requirements of the job around you does make you egotistical. Furthermore pushing forward with your idea, counter to your teachers , albeit indirectly, negative response shows you are both egotistical and out of control.

Would that I was being overly sensitive (which I guess is true from the mere act of replying to things right), but saying someone is fresh out of college, or lived with their parents, or lacks experience, is such a blatant put down you're asking me to believe things that are obviously not true. So, shrug. I guess, if you think you're right, well, that's nice. Creating ideas about other people based on nothing is the same as saying they suck at life and you know everything. It's kind of amusing to me that you think that isn't insulting.

But I think that guy was just a troll so...you know what they say about feeding the trolls.

I am troll? Me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
A Troll could've got you going with FAR less typing. See Mountainboy.

Alright sunshine, here's where the problem is. YOU ARE FRESH OUT OF UNIVERSITY. YOU ARE NOT A JAPANESE TEACHER. Combine these facts with the tone, attitudes, and content of your previous posts and we've got a pretty good profile for my aforementioned list of characteristics. You came onto an internet forum and this is all we have to work with, and well sunshine, you've sold yourself pretty good. At no point, have we said you suck at life nor are we trying to be insulting. We have, to varying degrees of sensitivity pointed out critical problems in your thinking and approach to the situation and you have insisted on ignoring this content in favour of attacking these posters. This is now the second time you've made self referential statements concerning life being less than acceptable. I would suggest getting some help for that.

As for whether or not I am right? Well... you know... I'm not the person who came to the forum, posted their content, and got butthurt over the responses. But then... I'm not the one with the problem am I?

Gizmo,
Signing posts like it's 1993

[SaitamaPA_Denise]

This is Japan; the dead fish goes in the school lunches. Whole.

Haha, three school lunches for Antonath!


But, direct or veiled, enough with the name-calling and personal attacks, please. Despite popular belief to the contrary, it is in fact possible to engage in heated debate via civilized discourse.

Internet forums aren't necessarily the best place to get comprehensive advice on a situation. Let's face it: posters only know as much as what is written on the screen, and sometimes (whether constructively or not) people feed in our own experiences and assumptions when interpreting and replying. Sometimes it's on the mark, and the advice works. Sometimes it's not, but clarifying/asking for clarification is more likely to improve the situation than going on the attack.

Staticnz, I know that tons of other Jets have experienced similar, if not exactly the same, frustrations (Yours Truly included, alas). I think there have been some posts in this thread that offer good advice, but you may also want to consider asking your PA about the situation. They'll be able to add a little more perspective and help you think of ways to go about addressing the issue at hand.