Excessive “Translation” of Japanese Words

[DjinnWired]

This has been driving me crazy for a while so excuse me if I get a bit ranty…
Does anyone else experience English classes where the JTE insists on converting every Japanese word into English? Here are some of the examples that bugged me this week
Tofu = Bean curd
Kotatsu = Japanese foot warmer
Mochi = Rice cake
Daikon = Japanese raddish
Ocha = Japanese tea
Rakugo = Comic story
Otoshidama = New Year’s Gift
Kabosu = Japanese lemon
Okonomiyaki = Japanese pizza
Ikeda-sensei = Ikeda-teacher
Some of these came up in a class with a teacher who doesn’t understand too much English, so I gritted my teeth and let it slide, but “mochi” was in a class with an excellent teacher so I tried to talk her out of it. It went something like this:
Me: No English speaking country has mochi, so there isn’t an English word that means mochi. It’s ok to just say “mochi”, the same way sushi in English is “sushi”.
JTE: But mochi in English is “rice cake”.
Me: That describes mochi, but it doesn’t MEAN mochi. Unless someone knows about Japanese culture they won’t know that “rice cake” means “mochi”. If they do know, then they will understand “mochi” anyway.
JTE: It’s in the dictionary. See?
Me: No English speaker will think about mochi if you say “rice cake”. It doesn’t communicate the meaning “mochi”.
JTE: Anyway, it is an English word in the dictionary, so “mochi” is “rice cake” [walks away].
Am I the only one who finds this obsession with making up English for Japanese words even if it doesn’t actually help to communicate in English frustrating? Especially with things like okonomiyaki where the strategy seems to be just adding “Japanese” before some other vaguely similar noun? Does anyone have advice for a better approach to tackling this?

[Siyris]

I find the same frustrations, though I disagree with a few on your list... Ocha being translated is usually a good idea -- though I would normally translate it to green tea. As for Ikeda-sensei, I've convinced my co-workers to go with "Mr. Ikeda" or "Professor Ikeda" You might try doing that.
For mochi specifically, the way I finally got my JHS JTE to understand that translating it to rice cake was not a good idea was to show her a picture of what american's call rice cakes (at least in colorado). So I got online and showed her a picture of http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge ... S80nhf.jpg those... she didn't believe me so I told her to do a google image search for the words 'rice cake' where she found the exact same picture. She now goes with mochi as mochi.

I've found that if I'm firm in telling my coworkers that 'no, that is a Japanese food, and if you translate it to English, yes those words mean that thing... but no English-speaker will know what you're talking about. If you say bean-curd, nobody will understand, but if you say tofu, they will get it right away.' It always helps the explanation if I use examples of the same thing in Japanese hamburger to hanbagu or cream sauce to kurimu sousu and ask if they would understand what I meant if I gave a literal translation. I think giving examples in their own language helps a little bit. Good luck

[irishjoe]

Hmmmm I think it depends a lot on the term, there are many which foreign people will understand like tofu or sushi or maybe even mochi, but there are also so many which foreign people won't understand. So saying it in Japanese won't help. Maybe because we are ALTs and live in Japan we know all of these words, but if they are to speak to people who aren't familiar with Japanese culture then they can't rely too much on Japanese vocabulary.

This came up as my students were preparing presentations for their study abroad trip to Canada.

It is very easy for them to say things like "I like my town's festival. We eat tako-yaki and okonimiyaki. They are delicious". If they say that to people in Canada nobody will have a clue what they are talking about. It would be similar however, if they say something like "We eat fried octopus and Japanese pancakes", the mental picture that foreign people would make would be way off.

So we taught them to explain the food/idea/etc by saying things like "I like okonimiyaki. It is like a savoury pancake. We use cabbage to make it". It also easy for the presentations cos they can include a picture and say "this is okonomiyaki".

So I think they should know English vocabulary for Japanese words, even if it does sound a bit silly sometimes, but also if possible know how to explain themselves in English.

[OitaPA_Nicole]

So we taught them to explain the food/idea/etc by saying things like "I like okonimiyaki. It is like a savoury pancake. We use cabbage to make it". It also easy for the presentations cos they can include a picture and say "this is okonomiyaki".

Exactly.

I think that rather than just teaching a direct translation for such culture/language specific words, getting students to try to actually explain the word/concept is much more helpful in the long run.
Also, it's great if you can remind students to say the Japanese word that they are explaining SLOWLY. I remember years ago when my Japanese classmates would try to explain something to me and their explanation in English would be nice and slow and clear, and then they would get excited/confident when they said the Japanese word for it, and I could never tell what they were saying.


I have to say that I do take issue with 'kabosu' just being taught as 'Japanese lemon'... you would DEFINITELY need to follow that one up with an explanation.

[ladama]

I dunno, I was quite amused when I was grading papers one day and came across the sentence, "Osaka is famous for burnt octopus balls." XD

Also, it's great if you can remind students to say the Japanese word that they are explaining SLOWLY. I remember years ago when my Japanese classmates would try to explain something to me and their explanation in English would be nice and slow and clear, and then they would get excited/confident when they said the Japanese word for it, and I could never tell what they were saying.

Ha, this really annoyed me when they did introductions, the English was nice and slow then when they got to their names it was a race to say it super fast. "Myyyy naaaame isssssu Szuk Taksh". I tried to explain that they need to say each syllable clearly if they have any hope of an English speaker understanding it. My advice didn't really stick though. >.<

[jerseywonder]

I agree, I think it's important that they give the Japanese word and then an explanation of what it is, in English ... for example, if they say, "I like to eat Japanese radish", the image that most English speakers would have is totally different to what the student is actually saying. It would be better for them to say, "I like to eat daikon. Daikon is a type of Japanese radish that is big and white", or something. Before I came to Japan, I assumed all radishes looked like this - http://urbanext.illinois.edu/veggies/images/radish.jpg, and I'm sure lots of non-Japanese people also do. Direct translations don't always work; acknowledging that what they're talking about is a uniquely Japanese thing with its own name, and then giving a description, is better IMO.

As for the introduction comment - so true!!! It drives me mad when students come up and say, very clearly, "My name is ..." and then mumble a random assortment of sounds before scurrying back to their seat. Unfortunately, telling them to speak slowly hasn't really made any difference at my schools.

[Jax]

For mochi specifically, the way I finally got my JHS JTE to understand that translating it to rice cake was not a good idea was to show her a picture of what american's call rice cakes (at least in colorado). So I got online and showed her a picture of http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge ... S80nhf.jpg those... she didn't believe me so I told her to do a google image search for the words 'rice cake' where she found the exact same picture. She now goes with mochi as mochi.

This is an excellent idea! I tried it with Japanese pizza and the first Google image result is this: http://www.chachich.com/mdchachi/images/pizza1.jpg (and also what I imagine when I hear the words Japanese pizza.)

[OitaPA_Nicole]

I dunno, I was quite amused when I was grading papers one day and came across the sentence, "Osaka is famous for burnt octopus balls." XD

Haha, that is great Ladama. Although I do not think I would want to do a google search of that to make a point to a teacher or student...

Regarding self introductions and explanations etc, I remember repeatedly asking my classmates to speak slower. Occasionally they would, but normally they would just forget. I joked around with them and did the same thing in reverse to them (explaining something from Australia really slowly in Japanese, but saying the actual word really fast). We all had a good laugh about it, and they began to realise how it must sound to the other person. After that they made more of an effort.

[positivity]

I agree it is really annoying. I know we live in Japan so we are going to understand more concepts then if they were talking to a foreigner in a foreign country, but realistically, if they are in a foreign country talking to a foreigner -- they will probably have good enough English to reply to the question "Takoyaki?? What's that?"

Also, I think it is good to escape that idea that everything must be translated step by step. I guess it's a side effect of the Japanese language's small number of sounds, for example - the fact that any imported word/concept has to be transformed into gairaigo. Often ending up sounding quite different from the original word -- different enough for a native English speaker with no knowledge of Japanese to be completely stumped if it were said to them.

More than that though, to incorporate non-English words into your English is exactly what native speakers do! English is filled with words taken from other languages with the pronunciation changed as little as possible, we have German, Japanese, French, Latin, Spanish etc. etc. words that we pronounce pretty much the same as a native speaker of that language would (well, certainly a great deal closer than gairaigo!). Especially if you are immersed in a foreign culture. I know most my friends here never say "My second year class" anymore - they will say "My ni-nensei class". Or "Shall we get the nomihodai?" rather than "Shall we do all-you-can-drink". It seems to me that nouns which do not have a GOOD English equivalent, should be kept in Japanese.

[DjinnWired]

Ocha being translated is usually a good idea -- though I would normally translate it to green tea.

That's what I meant, sorry. The same with things like kotatsu; I wouldn't expect an English speaker to understand "kotatsu" but "a Japanese food warmer" is a description not a translation and a bad description at at that!
The worst thing about the lesson I took that list of words from is that the students were coming up with really good explanations and the JTE was saying "no, you're wrong, it's Japanese lemon." These kids have done two years of eigo noto, and although that has its own issues, it does encourage the kids to use English words they know to try and think of new English words (star + fish, bus + stop). So when the JTE was asking them how to say kotatsu they were saying things like "hot table" and "blanket table" which are much better descriptions. I understand why kids are reluctant to answer questions in class after seeing the way she shot them down.

Re self intros: Yeah, the idea of pausing between names is hard to get across, even with adults. I've tried to encourage the students to take a breath between their names, but with limited success.

[trout501]

Next time a JTE tries to tell you that mochi is rice cake and yakisoba is fried noodles, just ask why they use words like chiizubaagaa, pan and keiki instead of Japanese translations of the ingredients to describe these foods.

[AVN]

Next time a JTE tries to tell you that mochi is rice cake and yakisoba is fried noodles, just ask why they use words like chiizubaagaa, pan and keiki instead of Japanese translations of the ingredients to describe these foods.

good point!

@Djinn: To be fair when I went home for Christmas I had people film self intros in English for my students and asked them to speak slowly and clearly for my EFL students and they had the same problem with their names haha.

[Tamachan87]

I love those classes.

"Stand up."
"YES!"
"Stand straight."
"YES!"
"Bow."
"Please, 何とか teacher!"

Why not?