Questions about Racism and Harassment

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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby hatefulsandwich » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:06 pm

Elan wrote:If you look to be offended, you will be. It's the same as with any other place. Smiling, being polite and flexible go a long way, no matter where you are.


+1

I've sometimes been amazed at how sensitive people are, to the point of being full of themselves. They micro-analyse every action committed in their presence as though it somehow *has to* relate to them in some way because of their race, weight, sexual orientation or piercings. Relax, smile. You're different. You're interesting. Some strangers might gossip about you, but who actually cares?
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby RoBot » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:25 pm

hatefulsandwich wrote:I've sometimes been amazed at how sensitive people are, to the point of being full of themselves. They micro-analyse every action committed in their presence as though it somehow *has to* relate to them in some way because of their race, weight, sexual orientation or piercings. Relax, smile. You're different. You're interesting. Some strangers might gossip about you, but who actually cares?


^^^ This is good.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:27 pm

word wrote:
Inago wrote:The Japanese Constitution is almost the same, if not better in someways, than the US Constitution, and the penal code is also very similar. You will be provided with the same legal protections as anywhere....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Image

Yeah, try it. Go ahead. Commit a crime and just see if you have anything that even remotely resembles the Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the US Constitution. Prepare to be disappointed.


In my 16 years of living and working in Japan I will have to say from direct experience, and experience of my wife and in-laws who work at the federal and local levels of Japanese government, that Japan does indeed have the equivalent of the 5th and 6th Amendments protecting one's right to double jeopardy, due process, and a fair and speedy trial. If you truly feel that Japan does lack such basic protections of your human rights, I would certainly avoid staying in Japan for any lengthy time.

You will notice that in the second part of the sentence, I had mentioned that Japan lacks a great deal of cultural and racial sensitivity--not because Japanese nationals are generally insensitive, but simply because they don't encounter visibly-different people and haven't thought about these issues to any extent. As Japan lacks the same level of sensitivity and experience, though legal protections exist, you will unfortunately discover few lawyers, judges or police who have much or any background in enforcing relevant laws dealing with ethnic minorities. What is missing is the same education, and I wouldn't make any assumptions about how much is missing.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:17 pm

hatefulsandwich wrote: I've sometimes been amazed at how sensitive people are, to the point of being full of themselves. They micro-analyse every action committed in their presence as though it somehow *has to* relate to them in some way because of their race, weight, sexual orientation or piercings. Relax, smile. You're different. You're interesting. Some strangers might gossip about you, but who actually cares?


Though perhaps you wouldn't be so amazed at how sensitive people can be if, over the course of your lifetime, you were unavoidably different-looking because of your race, weight, etc. As for Japan, if you speak frankly with native Japanese, you will discover that their behavior is often due to the presence of a foreign-looking person: in fact, it is commonly assumed by native Japanese, who are probably seeing a foreigner for the first time, that most Japanese will feel anxious or nervous in the presence of foreigners. As for gaikoku-jin in Japan, where people might have only seen a foreigner in passing, a lot is about you, and depending upon the individual, it is not always easy to distinguish between insensitivity and distaste, or intimidation and hostility.

Though I highly advocate taking a relaxed approach and smiling a lot, you won't always be interesting. This won't necessarily work in all places, under all conditions, for all people in Japan. Like many places, you can live in certain areas and encounter few problems, and other places might not be so friendly. While a young western woman might receive more curious attention, a large western male might appear more intimidating, while an openly Chinese male might not only appear less interesting but will likely receive some unfavorable responses from people. I live near an area that was once a notorious slum, but is now predominately an endless expanse of public-housing. While some people are nice, some didn't finish middle school, some are just elderly with no children to care for them, some are connected to Japan's largest yakuza group, and some people are openly hostile towards outsiders. While I don't necessarily feel like my life is in danger walking through the area with my 3 year old, I would rather avoid conflict and now generally stay away.

As for the original poster, most JET jobs are placed in fairly rural, low crime areas with medium to high-ranked schools. These areas hardly ever encounter outsiders aside from JET teachers, and are often curious, while JET housing is never in the middle of a 50 year old public housing area. As for appearing east asian, most find it is easy to blend in, but one thing to keep in mind, is that Japanese who fluently speak English can encounter resentment from Japan's less civil population. Japanese make a big deal about English compared to other countries, and one's inability to speak English is a mark for one's lack of education, while a fluent speaker, who is assumed to have studied abroad, is often perceived as a "showoff".
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby HiroshimaPAGuillaume » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:29 pm

Well, though not being anything like an expert in law, I do believe the 5th Amendment refers to "Grand Juries" (a jury of peers), which Japan doesn't have. The system, I know, began tentatively introducing lay judges circa 2009, but its not remotely the same. Also, the Japanese legal system has a somewhat disturbingly high conviction rate. There are many reasons for this, and if you are interested you can read this paper written by professional lawyers here.

http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwple/9907001.html


Now, as regards the 6th amendment... I guess that depends what you mean by a speedy trial. In Japan the police has the right to keep you in custody for IIRC 23 days, without officially charging you or, it therefore means, giving you a lawyer. Apparently, this period is often used by the police to force a confession on the detained (one of the reasons that the paper above outlines as a cause of Japan's high conviction rate), something which is very gray legally and morally.

That being said, both of what I mentioned above applies to EVERYBODY in Japan; not just foreigners. So no racism there. :lol:

I have no doubt (though i have not read much of it, I must admit), that Japan's constitution is excellent. The Soviet Union's constitution was similarly excellent (I HAVE, oddly enough, read the large majority of it, and it is in my opinion better than the US one). That doesn't mean that the Soviet Union better protected its citizens human rights than the United States.

And no guys and gals, before you pounce, I'm not equating Japan to the USSR. :roll: My lack of more modern examples is simply an unfortunate result of my having been trained in history.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby word » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Inago wrote:In my 16 years of living and working in Japan I will have to say from direct experience, and experience of my wife and in-laws who work at the federal and local levels of Japanese government, that Japan does indeed have the equivalent of the 5th and 6th Amendments protecting one's right to double jeopardy, due process, and a fair and speedy trial. If you truly feel that Japan does lack such basic protections of your human rights, I would certainly avoid staying in Japan for any lengthy time.


You've lived and worked here for sixteen years, and you've never heard of a person who was detained by police without access to legal representation? LOLFAIL. HiroPA already did an excellent job of de-bunking you, so I won't get into it here, but I can only hope that if I stay here for another thirteen years I do a better job of understanding the Japanese legal system.

Inago wrote: As Japan lacks the same level of sensitivity and experience, though legal protections exist, you will unfortunately discover few lawyers, judges or police who have much or any background in enforcing relevant laws dealing with ethnic minorities. What is missing is the same education, and I wouldn't make any assumptions about how much is missing.


Wat? Why would laws be any different for ethnic minorities than they would for anyone else? If you meant non-citizens, I could see how a few laws might be different... but not that many.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby hatefulsandwich » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:39 pm

Inago wrote:Though perhaps you wouldn't be so amazed at how sensitive people can be if, over the course of your lifetime, you were unavoidably different-looking because of your race, weight, etc.


What a presumptious comment. What precisely makes you think that I am not unavoidably different looking because of my race, weight, etc where I live? I am talking from experience here. I come from more than one minority group and have definitely stuck out like a sore thumb in the past. I know precisely what it's like to be spoken about in a language that I can't understand. I have been laughed at and pointed at openly because of another minority aspect of my life. People have looked at me and even commented with open disdain. I also know of other members from the same minority groups who have been far too sensitive in some situations and decide that, for example, somebody crossed to the other side of the road to avoid them because they're a different race. In some situations perhaps it is true and many others there are perfectly innocent explanations at the same time.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:12 pm

HiroshimaPAGuillaume wrote:Well, though not being anything like an expert in law, I do believe the 5th Amendment refers to "Grand Juries" (a jury of peers), which Japan doesn't have. The system, I know, began tentatively introducing lay judges circa 2009, but its not remotely the same. Also, the Japanese legal system has a somewhat disturbingly high conviction rate. There are many reasons for this, and if you are interested you can read this paper written by professional lawyers here.


If I use your above example, the differences in implementation of the law gets more complicated: the police must have probable cause and must officially file charges, but the prosecutor can hold you up to 23 days without a conviction until the court date. The prosecutor can ask a judge for repeated extensions, up to 23 days, while the prosecutor is waiting for evidence, and in some cases these extensions are granted a bit too easily, but normally these apply to much more serious crimes. Unfortunately, police often do take advantage of this time to try to coerce a confession. For minor crimes, such as a drunken brawl, most Japanese will spend the night in jail. You have a right to speak to an attorney, but in Japan, you won't be allowed so see anyone else. Yet, for even lesser crimes, a chikan might want to confess right away and be released so that he can hide the incident from his employer, etc, rather than spend a couple of more days in jail--and police are aware of this and take advantage of the fact. Arbitrarily detaining people for an inordiante length of time can result in a civil case against the judge and prosecutor.

Now when it comes to foreigners in Japan, who aren't aware of their legal rights, this is a different matter. Often a judge won't grant a non-citizen bail, because it is assumed (perhaps falsely) that they could leave the country; and for the same reason, foreigners will often spend an inordinate time in jail even for even simple visa violations. In this case, there has only been recent news about these lengthy detentions of foreigners apparently due to pressure from the UN; but fortunately, a large decline in foreign detentions.

Regardless, to reiterate, the general legal structure is there in Japan, but specific interpretation and implementation of the law can be different. And if you compare the law between two given countries you will probably find a variety of pluses and minuses. In every case, including the US, you will find aspects of the constitution that are weekly enforced, or examples of legislation or public policy that is plainly unconstitutional. In most cases, foreigners or immigrants in any particular country are less knowledgeable about these differences and well as some of their basic rights.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:29 pm

word wrote: You've lived and worked here for sixteen years, and you've never heard of a person who was detained by police without access to legal representation? LOLFAIL. HiroPA already did an excellent job of de-bunking you, so I won't get into it here, but I can only hope that if I stay here for another thirteen years I do a better job of understanding the Japanese legal system.


In regard to Japanese nationals, no, I have never heard of this; yet this is an area for abuse if you are talking about a Chinese national detained for over-staying his/her visa. If you are talking about foreigners potentially being deprived of their rights, you are reemphasizing the need for education and awareness in Japan.

word wrote: Wat? Why would laws be any different for ethnic minorities than they would for anyone else? If you meant non-citizens, I could see how a few laws might be different... but not that many.


I don't think you understood my sentence. It is unconstitutional to discriminate based upon ethnicity or national origin in Japan, but you will be challenged to find many lawyers, short of some NGOs, that have any experience dealing with this aspect of the law.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:19 pm

hatefulsandwich wrote: What a presumptious comment. What precisely makes you think that I am not unavoidably different looking because of my race, weight, etc where I live? I am talking from experience here. I come from more than one minority group and have definitely stuck out like a sore thumb in the past. I know precisely what it's like to be spoken about in a language that I can't understand. I have been laughed at and pointed at openly because of another minority aspect of my life. People have looked at me and even commented with open disdain. I also know of other members from the same minority groups who have been far too sensitive in some situations and decide that, for example, somebody crossed to the other side of the road to avoid them because they're a different race. In some situations perhaps it is true and many others there are perfectly innocent explanations at the same time.


It is always easy to discount the experiences of others and assume they are overly sensitive. But, if you are speaking from personal experience, I would imagine you have stronger sympathy for visible-minority groups in Japan who might make up less than .1 percent of the population, whether it is an Indian family in Kobe, an albino teenager in Saitama, or a multi-cultural family living alone in a town in Hokkaido. When a stranger approaches a multicultural family in a remote part of town and tells the wife with open disdain to "leave the husband because he will leave her anyway, because that is what foreigners do", you should be able to imagine their reaction. If a woman freezes in her path at the site of a visibly different person, contorts her face in strong disgust, then crosses the street, as happened to a woman in North Osaka, you probably know from experience how unsettling this is. If you are able to relax, smile, and let these things go, then I duly admire you. Most people can't do that.

If you intended to remind people that "many people are not consciously being discriminatory, and some situations are a matter of coincidence; though it can be difficult to tell the difference", then you make a good point.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Mimmy » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:36 am

hatefulsandwich wrote:
Inago wrote:Though perhaps you wouldn't be so amazed at how sensitive people can be if, over the course of your lifetime, you were unavoidably different-looking because of your race, weight, etc.


What a presumptious comment. What precisely makes you think that I am not unavoidably different looking because of my race, weight, etc where I live? I am talking from experience here. I come from more than one minority group and have definitely stuck out like a sore thumb in the past. I know precisely what it's like to be spoken about in a language that I can't understand. I have been laughed at and pointed at openly because of another minority aspect of my life. People have looked at me and even commented with open disdain. I also know of other members from the same minority groups who have been far too sensitive in some situations and decide that, for example, somebody crossed to the other side of the road to avoid them because they're a different race. In some situations perhaps it is true and many others there are perfectly innocent explanations at the same time.

I think that, in many situations, you are correct.

However, when I walked into a Japanese bookstore with two friends, one of whom was white and one of whom was black, and the owner pointed to me (also white) and said, "You, OK," pointed to my white friend and said, "You, OK," and then pointed to my black friend and said, "You, OUT," I don't know how else she was supposed to take that.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby eFred » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:39 am

Mimmy wrote:
hatefulsandwich wrote:
Inago wrote:Though perhaps you wouldn't be so amazed at how sensitive people can be if, over the course of your lifetime, you were unavoidably different-looking because of your race, weight, etc.


What a presumptious comment. What precisely makes you think that I am not unavoidably different looking because of my race, weight, etc where I live? I am talking from experience here. I come from more than one minority group and have definitely stuck out like a sore thumb in the past. I know precisely what it's like to be spoken about in a language that I can't understand. I have been laughed at and pointed at openly because of another minority aspect of my life. People have looked at me and even commented with open disdain. I also know of other members from the same minority groups who have been far too sensitive in some situations and decide that, for example, somebody crossed to the other side of the road to avoid them because they're a different race. In some situations perhaps it is true and many others there are perfectly innocent explanations at the same time.

I think that, in many situations, you are correct.

However, when I walked into a Japanese bookstore with two friends, one of whom was white and one of whom was black, and the owner pointed to me (also white) and said, "You, OK," pointed to my white friend and said, "You, OK," and then pointed to my black friend and said, "You, OUT," I don't know how else she was supposed to take that.


I don't think that there can be any other way to take it. That's incredibly harsh. But like someone mentioned, Japanese people are people too and people can really be the pits sometimes. I'm dark skinned (coloured or mixed race if you like) and many rural parts of South Africa are still very racist. I was on holiday in a farmland area and when I walked to the little 'dorpie' ('town centre' in English I think) some white guys started shouting extremely rude racial things at me (I was the only one in the road, no mistake about whether or not it was directed at me). Not very pleasant. But I ignored them and just forgot about it. I don't know how I would handle being directly spoken to like the situation above though. My media student-y mind demands that I make a media hype about it.

This race stuff became harder when you presented that (real and scary) situation Mimmy. What did your friend do? In fact, what did all of you do?
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Mimmy » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:32 am

eFred wrote:
Mimmy wrote:
hatefulsandwich wrote:
What a presumptious comment. What precisely makes you think that I am not unavoidably different looking because of my race, weight, etc where I live? I am talking from experience here. I come from more than one minority group and have definitely stuck out like a sore thumb in the past. I know precisely what it's like to be spoken about in a language that I can't understand. I have been laughed at and pointed at openly because of another minority aspect of my life. People have looked at me and even commented with open disdain. I also know of other members from the same minority groups who have been far too sensitive in some situations and decide that, for example, somebody crossed to the other side of the road to avoid them because they're a different race. In some situations perhaps it is true and many others there are perfectly innocent explanations at the same time.

I think that, in many situations, you are correct.

However, when I walked into a Japanese bookstore with two friends, one of whom was white and one of whom was black, and the owner pointed to me (also white) and said, "You, OK," pointed to my white friend and said, "You, OK," and then pointed to my black friend and said, "You, OUT," I don't know how else she was supposed to take that.


I don't think that there can be any other way to take it. That's incredibly harsh. But like someone mentioned, Japanese people are people too and people can really be the pits sometimes. I'm dark skinned (coloured or mixed race if you like) and many rural parts of South Africa are still very racist. I was on holiday in a farmland area and when I walked to the little 'dorpie' ('town centre' in English I think) some white guys started shouting extremely rude racial things at me (I was the only one in the road, no mistake about whether or not it was directed at me). Not very pleasant. But I ignored them and just forgot about it. I don't know how I would handle being directly spoken to like the situation above though. My media student-y mind demands that I make a media hype about it.

This race stuff became harder when you presented that (real and scary) situation Mimmy. What did your friend do? In fact, what did all of you do?

We just quietly left with my friend. It was one of those situations where you were just so stunned that it happened that you couldn't really think of anything else to do but to leave. She said it wasn't a big deal and she was kind of used to that (although not something so... blatant). For me it was shocking because I had never seen anything like that.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby bananathursdays » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:33 am

Racism is still an issue, even in the United States. Without mentioning names, I work with a woman who sees a black person and automatically thinks they are going to try to steal something or cause trouble. Yes, there is a chance you may face these types of situations in Japan, because you will be a minority. Such things could happen anywhere and yes, it really sucks.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: All we can do is be the nicest, best people we can be.
I think the whole point of JET Program is for Japan to learn more about other cultures and for us to learn more about Japan. After all, if accepted as ALTs, our job will be to teach children about our culture, right? The purpose of this program is to create a brighter future, with children who will grow up educated about the customs of people all over the world, which will hopefully lead to less misunderstandings.
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Re: Questions about Racism and Harassment

Postby Inago » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:30 am

kaylasturner wrote:Racism is still an issue, even in the United States. Without mentioning names, I work with a woman who sees a black person and automatically thinks they are going to try to steal something or cause trouble. Yes, there is a chance you may face these types of situations in Japan, because you will be a minority. Such things could happen anywhere and yes, it really sucks.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: All we can do is be the nicest, best people we can be.
I think the whole point of JET Program is for Japan to learn more about other cultures and for us to learn more about Japan. After all, if accepted as ALTs, our job will be to teach children about our culture, right? The purpose of this program is to create a brighter future, with children who will grow up educated about the customs of people all over the world, which will hopefully lead to less misunderstandings.


That seems like a very good approach; and in the the case of Japan, and the outside world, there is a lot of misunderstanding--enough to keep you wondering and sometimes frustrated for many years. I'm sure many people would agree that racial/cultural sensitivity education is still needed in the US, but imagine if the US had no education: aside from some education about visibly-similar ethnic Koreans, Chinese, and buraku-min (Japan's formal feudal underclass), Japan has little education. I think you can look at Japan's situation two ways: it's not bad, considering how little education there is; but it's a little disconcerting, considering how little education there is. Though, Japan is somewhat aware of Apartheid South Africa, and coincidentally have learned about Martin Luther King, many people have learned very little, or have no knowledge about the Segregation Era in the US, for example.

You will encounter some of the nicest people you have ever met in Japan (I have), and some of the worst. Minorities in Japan are tiny, and it often assumed they have little knowledge of the Japanese language, customs, or the law--which makes them easy targets for the less-scrupulous. It's a myth that Japan is non-confrontational, but most try to take the most diplomatic path. More civil people in Japan want foreigners to stand up for themselves, but arm yourself with some useful phrases. A calm and simple "nan-desu ka?" in some situations (a more polite sounding "what?/what is it?") will get your through an amazing amount of situations. In the case of a shop owner who denies access, a calm "Sore wa hanzai, deshou?" (that is illegal, don't you think?) will probably get many to back down. People don't expect a foreigner to speak Japanese, and that will throw them off by itself, and in most cases, people will back down and even apologize.
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