Sunshine Textbook (3rd Grade) Program 4 - Is this offensive?

[Dudefella]

It made me think that the zoo keepers were a bit stupid. The skin was too thick, so they tried to poison them. The elephants didn't eat the poisoned potatoes, so their next idea? Give up and cruelly let them starve to death.

Good job.



Also, to the Japan apologists on this thread, thanks for the laughs!

[rufustfirefly]

OK I`ll take it down a reading level for you: I think putting a war related story with the americans as villians in a japanese english text book is bad, without context doubly bad and given Japans problems admitting war guilt (I know you dispute this) even worse.

William MacDonald wrote:
However expecting to dictate the content of textbooks in a foreign country where you aren't a citizen? ... that's just the teensiest bit presumptuous.

I think it was more critiquing than dictating but why can`t the good people on this forum critique a text book that they are supposed to teach? And why can you defend said text book without being equally presumptuous? Are you nihon jin yourself ? ....ah yes from that fine old japanese clan the MacDonalds...

[trout501]

He writes "If you don't want to admit your guilt or make an apology, then that's fine and dandy," but the implication from the discourse is plain as day. To him, this is very much NOT fine and dandy. Basically what he's saying in his posts is that because he "admits guilt" for his entire country's misdeeds (as if that means anything), and I don't admit my guilt - and by "my" he implies that the deeds of long dead presidents of the country where I happen to have been born are my responsibility - that makes me a hypocrite and him not a hypocrite. And therefore, as the implication goes, I and other people who won't make an absurd apology to him are not worth listening to. I would say that's an ad hominem if I've ever heard one.

P.S. trout501 - the U.S. is still bombing civilians today, so it's not just an issue about "long dead presidents". If you're a citizen of voting age in a democratic country then you get certain rights, but with them come certain responsibilities, and one of them is being responsible for the stuff your politicians do in your name.

You should just admit that you have no idea what you're talking about. Let's just say that if repeating yourself made what you say factual, then you'd have no problems. Unfortunately, reality is not so convenient.

As for your previous post...

I'd recommend taking a step back for once and considering that not every country considers voting shameful. I think maybe there's something strange going on in the South African educational system where shame is instilled at a fundamental level, but can only guess what kinds of things they taught you in school. I really don't mean to condescend here. I know I was taught that diversity is good and all people are equal. It's sort of like brainwashing when it happens in primary education, but those are my country's values, so they've become my values too. In Japan, you may have noticed that teamwork and group identity are emphasized. It's not brainwashing in the bad sense of the word, but how else to describe it? Moral education? If that's so, then why aren't the parents involved and the curriculum comes from political decisions? The simplest way, least "loaded" way to say it may be as follows. I think we have different conceptions of when to feel shame, and I think the source is way back in our upbringings. It's worth considering that other people may not be moral mirrors of yourself.

Did I say that hypocrisy is acceptable or not acceptable? No. I said it's not relevant. Grow the eff up and look in the mirror. Pobody's nerfect. I'm not. You're not. Guess what? I'm not going to come after you if you're not perfect, and you don't have to come after me if I'm not perfect. The whole subject has absolutely nothing to do with textbooks, A-bombs, elephants, or any other subject raised in this thread.

If calling you down from your high horse is an ad hominem, well fine. I wasn't really trying to prove anything except that I don't like your tone, which I think I've done. You, on the other hand, were trying to prove something else by using this "feeling shame" thing and making a distinction between yourself, with your most righteous shame, and other people: us pathetic souls with no shame for our own heritage, stubborn us. I think you were trying to prove that you're "normal" and the rest of us are in denial and/or amoral hypocrites? Does that capture the essence of it? Sorry, I have a hard time understanding things that make no sense. Whatever it was, though, it hinges on that logical fallacy that I can not accept.

[trout501]

William McDonald's,
I consider your latest addition to the thread more of a joke than anything else. I have never seen someone who tried more desperately to twist someone else's words to his own ends. Voting is shameful? No, wait it's not shameful if I say it's shameful because of reverse-psychology?! No, wait it's shameful after all? Make up your mind, man!!! Me asking you to broaden your horizons is telling you what your rights are or aren't? Don't be absurd! Me asking you to broaden your horizons is somehow related to the United States being a "signatory to at least a half dozen treaties, blah blah"??? Me saying that hypocrisy not being relevant to textbooks is coming after you???

What are you smoking, man? Because it's time for a break. Grab some munchies or something. Holy crap.

As for "coming up with a defense" for civilian bombing??? Why should I do this for you? Why does it relate to textbooks? When did I EVER mention me caring about the topic? My position in this thread has always been one of criticizing the armchair tacticians, you included, whose discourse descended into levels of pedantry that annoyed me quite a lot. I never mentioned you specifically... at least until you singled yourself out by denying that you were one (basically an admission of being one in my book, but whatever). And that's where we are. If you reply to me again, I'll reply in turn, but looking at the wild ride you want to take me on with your latest post, I think our conversation is pretty much played out here.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I feel that I've been able to see a lot of new points of view regarding the whole thing that I honestly didn't before. I now question a lot more of the 'facts' I thought I knew about the deterrent or war ending effects of the bomb. But that said, there is still something I don't exactly understand.

I don't want to just say, 'they started it'. But, well, there are some countries that have very actively invaded other countries to try to take them over. Yes, the US does this now and has for over half a century, setting up puppet governments for our own advantage. I don't like this at all and am disgusted by it. But regarding back in WW2, isn't it something to be considered that Japan was trying to take over the world?

I think all countries re-write history in horrible ways. Hopefully by year 3000 or 4000 we'll be a bit more evolved, but that is a far fetched hope. But the lack of context for the stories in Sunshine and elsewhere is what disappoints me the most.

This is a sincere post, and I really do want to understand better what Ode to a Grasshopper and William MacDonald are saying.

How wonderful, a post from a reasonable human being willing to consider what's actually being said!

I'm on a cruise to Kyushu this weekend, but when I have the time I'll happily oblige.
William and I have different outlooks on a few things here - my not really being part of/having a 'side' per se - so in the meantime he can cover his own thoughts, and those foist upon him to boot.
This thread is great fun btw, there's more projection here than Cannes.

[rufustfirefly]

Mr Macdonald
You seem to have the reading comprehension level of a 6 year old. It was YOU who questioned the right of foreigners to critique japanese text books-I was merely pointing out the hypocracy of this when YOU are commenting on japanese text book contents yourself. As to context, I thought it was pretty clear what context we were talking about- why the U.S was bombing Japan. And did you just imply I should leave Japan? Whhhoah a bit out of line dont ya think?

Really dude you should get help with your reading difficulties. Adult illiteracy is a serious problem but it can be overcome. There are a number of fine adult literacy programs I could direct you to. Hey I`m just trying to help...

[phoenixphreak]

Mr Macdonald
You seem to have the reading comprehension level of a 6 year old. It was YOU who questioned the right of foreigners to critique japanese text books-I was merely pointing out the hypocracy of this when YOU are commenting on japanese text book contents yourself. As to context, I thought it was pretty clear what context we were talking about- why the U.S was bombing Japan. And did you just imply I should leave Japan? Whhhoah a bit out of line dont ya think?

Really dude you should get help with your reading difficulties. Adult illiteracy is a serious problem but it can be overcome. There are a number of fine adult literacy programs I could direct you to. Hey I`m just trying to help...

But you can't even spell or use punctuation and capitalization correctly. It might be best for you to slow yourself down and recheck your posts. This will help with others' reading comprehension.

[isitatomic]

Just throwing this out there...

Year 2000 Ig Nobel Prize Winners

PSYCHOLOGY: David Dunning of Cornell University and Justin Kruger of the University of Illinois, for their modest report, "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments." [Published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, vol. 77, no. 6, December 1999, pp. 1121-34.]

[Cytrix]

There is a whole bunch of people with sandy nether-regions in this thread...

[phoenixphreak]

There is a whole bunch of people with sandy nether-regions in this thread...

So true.
I for one just took a nice shower and am feeling sand-less now.

[kurisuu]

This thread is hilarious.

I will agree about MacDonald trying to come off as holier-than-thou. I got that impression from his writing too. I am not going to get into the discussion because of what it has spiraled out of control into, but man this was funny to read.

On an positive note though, man am I enjoying JET, this country, and all things included (yes, this includes teaching A Mother's Lullaby).

You guys really should spend more time out exploring, doing things, or meeting people, rather than arguing for 8 pages on the forums about the A-bomb's justifications. (Is this still a discussion being brought up on these forums? Sigh..)